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Thursday, September 25, 2008

2級 Grammar 126-130

This marks the first day that I have cracked my Japanese study books open since I've returned to America. My prolonged LACK of studying is an ANTI-accomplishment that I can only describe with one word: やばい。 I need to get back on my game and FAST, cause otherwise I'm not gonna be ready for the JLPT in December. So today, I'll bring you the next five grammar points, and let my example sentences explain just why I've been so busy.

126) ~については ・ についても
Take a good long re-read over grammar point 125 in Brett's Tuesday post, because you'll need it for this one and the next. Got it? Good. This usage of について is only an explanation of how to attach particles to make it fit into different situations.
As Brett said について書く or について考える is to write about or talk about. 戦争について本 also works. By attaching は at the end however, you're making your 'about whatever' the subject of the sentence. Does that make sense? 戦争について本 is a sentence about a book. Check this one out: 今、経済について章です。戦争については後で書いてあるのかな?
についてもworks the same way. You're just attaching the idea of "also about:" この本は経済だけではなく、政治についてもいっぱい書いてあります。

Ex. やっぱ、例文を作るのが難しいので、アメリカの生活については後で伝えます。家族のことについても書こうとします。

127) ~についての
Reference the previous point. Anytime you want to use について followed by another noun, you have the option of using it with の. In my book's examples, the nouns that follow are all preceded by honorifics, so I'll assume that this is the way to use について + noun in situations that call for formality.

Ex. Aさん: Jeff様のご両親は日本についてのご質問をたくさんありますか?それとも、日本の事は、もう、詳しくごぞんじますか?
Jeff: いや、それとはちょっと違うですね。私、日本のことをよく話しますが、相手が聞きたいかどうか。。。良く分かりません。

128) ~につき
~because of
~ per

This is used just like なので. You attach it to a noun that serves as the explanation for the clause that comes next. When should it be used instead of なので? As reader Mark let me know in the comments below, it's a formal expression WRITTEN on SIGNS and BULLETINS. All of my book's examples would fit neatly on a sign, flier, or notice.

Ex. 姪子のKaliちゃんは昼寝中につき、私もじぶんの寝室に限られている。うるさくなって、赤ちゃん起こさないようにね。

129) ~につけ
~ whenever (implies something invariable)

The book, in its ultimate wisdom, defines this as の時、いつも。It's used when you want to say When X happens, Y ALWAYS. X provokes the same reactions, feelings, or outcome, invariably. There's another usage as well, which involves doubling up on your につけs. If you want to say "In this case, or in that case, the result will always be Y," you can say: 私が料理すると、味が薄いにつけ、濃いにつけかぞくから文句が出る (book's example.)

Ex. フロリダは一年中暖かいので、フロリダに帰るにつけ、毎日、実家のプールで泳ぎます。



130) ~につけても
~no matter what

This one is almost universally used with 何 or 何事 to form "no matter what." そのものだよ。

Ex. アメリカの生活は忙しくて楽しいよ。だが、プールがどんなに気持ち良さそうでも、Kaliちゃんがどんなにかわいくても、日本語の勉強はいくらしないといけなくても、何事につけても、マンガを読む時間が一番大事でしょう?

Yes, I am that much of a geek.

8 comments:

Mark said...

First time poster here. I'm also taking 2-kyuu in December so it's great learning anew and reminding myself of the huge amount of required grammar, using your posts. So thanks!

Regarding 128, につき, I learnt that it's purely a written form used on signs and the like.

e.g. 工事中につき、迂回して下さい。
e.g. 故障中につき、使用禁止!

AzzidisRidden said...

Thanks for the comment, Mark. Where will your test center be?

Also, thanks for the clarification, which is spot on. I'm making a note in the body of the post, but please forgive the example sentence, which I'm gonna leave as is.

Mark said...

I'm in Nagano so I'm hoping to be given the Matsumoto test centre, where I took 3-kyuu last year.

Are you taking 2-kyuu in America or Japan?

archipelagic said...

So in America you don't need to do a pose in a picture. You can just smile and look natural. Just a tip.

blue said...

戦争について本
should be 戦争についての本

今、経済について章です。
should be 今、経済についての章です。

~について is usally followed by a verb.
If it is followed by a noun. You have to put の in between.

Brett's Ex ハムサンドについて夢をよく見る.
夢 is a noun but 夢を見る is like a verb. So this one can go either of the ways.
について夢をよく見る。
or
についての夢をよく見る。

Ex. やっぱ、例文を作るのが難しいので、アメリカの生活については後で伝えます。家族のことについても書こうとします。

Not grammatically wrong but 伝えます does not fit there very well because it sounds a bit formal but the tone of entire sentence is kinda casual.

やっぱ、例文を作るのが難しいので、アメリカの生活や、家族のことについては、後で書くことにします。


Jeff様のご両親は日本についてのご質問をたくさんありますか?
shoud be
Jeff様のご両親は日本についてのご質問がたくさんおありになりますか?

いや、それとはちょっと違うですね。
This line is not necessarry
or you just say
いや、それがですね、
or
いや、じつはですね、
I understand Aさんassumes Jeff's parents are interested in Japan but the reality is that jeff is not sure if they are interested or not. So you mean it(What A thinks) is a bit different from the reality.
But somehow それとはちょっと違うですね does not fit there very well.
Hard to explain why. hmmmmmm....


Ex. 姪子のKaliちゃんは昼寝中につき、

Mark said...
につき, I learnt that it's purely a written form used on signs and the like.
e.g. 工事中につき、迂回して下さい。
e.g. 故障中につき、使用禁止!

Actually I think it can be used for the announcement like
社長が海外出張中につき、副社長の私が、質疑に応答させていただきます。
父が病気療養中につき、息子の私が、代役を勤めさせていただきます。
So it is not to be limited to the usage for the signs.
However, it is for very formal occasions only.
Not for the story of 姪子napping.

姪子のKaliちゃんは昼寝中につき、
should be
姪子のKaliちゃんが昼寝中なので、

私もじぶんの寝室に限られている。
Sorry, this does not make sense in Japanese.
I say
私もじぶんの寝室にこもっています。
or
私も自分の寝室にいることにしています。
or
私も自分の寝室にいたほうがいいみたいです。

Ex. フロリダに帰るにつけ、毎日、実家のプールで泳ぎます。

I think ~につけ is usually followed by something negative or sad.

フロリダの家に帰るにつけ、僕は死んだ犬のことを思い出して悲しくなります。

But I am not sure.

AzzidisRidden said...

@Mark: Fukuoka. Though I've gotta start cracking down if I'm actually gonna be ready.

@Cassie: Ha. Will try to remember that. Or at least switch back to my old standard, the double middle finger.

@blue: Thanks again for all the comments. Your correction about the usage of 限るwas particularly helpful.

The grammar book I'm using lists a number of examples where についてis followed by a noun, but when I looked closer, they turned out to be the beginning of verb phrases, as you pointed out.

The example sentence that I wrote for につき had already been corrected by Mark, but I decided to leave the sentence as I had written it, even though the formality level was off.

And another example my book lists is 祖母が編んだセーターを見ると、やさしかった祖母を思い出す。I didn't think that this was a negative or sad sentence... unless she's dead?

Anyway, thanks as always for the time you take to correct our work. It's really hard to figure out all the nuances, and even when we have a grasp of the meaning, it's hard to figure out how and when WE can use it appropriately.

Mark said...

"And another example my book lists is 祖母が編んだセーターを見ると、やさしかった祖母を思い出す。I didn't think that this was a negative or sad sentence... unless she's dead?"

I'm guessing that in this example she is dead, as the past tense やさしかった is being used. Just my first impression though.

blue said...

Ex 祖母が編んだセーターを見ると、やさしかった祖母を思い出す。

First of all, you are talking about "~につけ", aren't you?
So this has to be
祖母が編んだセーターを見るにつけ、やさしかった祖母を思い出す。

And as Mark pointed out やさしかった is the past tense, so possibly she is gone.
Or it is not easy for this person to see her now for some reason.
Therefore the feeling that the sweater brings out in this person has may not be sad sad but at least very emotional or melancholic.
In Japanese, しみじみする、感傷的になる。

I am still not 100% sure about ~につきmust be followed by something negative, sad or emotional.
But at least I can say it is usually so.

As for 限る、限られる,
in Japanese, I guess the expressions like "my activities had been very limited because of my illness" did not exist originally.
Now they say "私の行動は、病気のため、とても制限されていました" and probably it came from the translation of English. It is called "直訳的表現(literal translation)"
However, as you know, the literal translation sometimes
works and sometimes does not, so you have to be careful about the usage.